Jason Null: [00:00:00] Welcome back to our second episode at MIS DIY. I'm your host, Jason Null, vice President MIS Solutions. And once again, we have Adam Ringland, our operations manager. We have some two new guests this week. Yeah, we rotation. Yeah, we'll change up here. We have Austin Doans, who is a systems administrator.
Like level 21, right? Sure. There we go. And then we have Duane Taylor. He's another one of our V CIOs. Last week you met Nate Jewett. They work in the same [00:01:00] department, just working with our partners and making sure that they have everything they need. So last week, just to kind of recap we talked about business goals and IT strategy.
We also talked about infrastructures. We also talked about road mapping and budgeting. And finally, when we talked about monitoring our systems and how do we do that? This week we're gonna dive into infrastructures in a little bit more detail and talk about what we see going on in small businesses across the United States, especially in our area.
And that's why we have Austin here, just so he can bring us the technical side, even though I think everybody in the room is technical. It's just nice to see somebody who is a level 21 mage and hitting.
Duane Taylor: He's updating his
Adam Ringland: LinkedIn right now.
Duane Taylor: No. He stops.
Jason Null: Yes. So. So
Adam Ringland: So we're just gonna let you talk this entire time.
We're just here to watch,
Jason Null: right? Can't wait for that. So, let's talk about how, how hardware [00:02:00] impacts small businesses and what we see when we're coming in there from, you know, network switches when we, of course, let me define infrastructure again. Yep. We're talking about it infrastructures. And not your building, your sprinkler system and the other pieces that make up your kind of system, your IT hardware.
Yeah, we're talking about IT hardware and so. Let's talk about, let's jump back into the components, what we like to see and what we see in small businesses and why they're not succeeding when they're trying to do maybe it on their own, and what they can do to improve their, their
Adam Ringland: own infrastructures. I, I think a lot of times the, the smaller businesses start with maybe five, six people and they continue to grow to 25.
So when they began, they have the five to six people mentality. They're running out the best Buy or microcenter and buying what they think is top of the line because that's what they have at their house. And then what they clearly, they quickly find is they, they add, you know, folks to their business, ah, it's not working as good as it should anymore.
This, you know, this router I got for $82 at Best [00:03:00] Buy and, and it's broadcasting on my wireless too, and they just continue to go, go, go. And then, you know, unfortunately you, when we come in and we're like, okay, these are the recommendations you guys are. You guys are big boys now, you know, you've done it.
Congrats. You're, you're making your, your business good. You know, a lot of times they're like, well, I don't, why do we need all this stuff? And then they quickly find out why they do. I always
Jason Null: love the one about wireless. Mm-hmm. It's wireless. I mean, it should just work. Right. And wireless is, is not magic.
I mean, wireless, not magic. It does connect back. Yeah. It is a device providing that signal that is hard lined back to switches and firewalls and providing that connectivity. And I think
Duane Taylor: 50, probably 50 to 70% of the issues that we, when we meet prospects and we're prospecting when we sign on new partners.
50 to 70% of their issues that they're frustrated about, they're losing efficiency about is really because of, just like Adam said, you know, we started with five, now we've got 25. We don't have anybody that's really [00:04:00] monitoring this stuff at all. Yeah. And so we, when we, when we come in, what we add is we, we kind of standardize those things and put them on it.
Not a consumer grade product, something that's supportable. It's easier to, to get to the bottom line. All of those things come into to, to play, but that's one, probably one of the biggest things that I see. When we're prospecting from prospecting to a partner to road mapping to implementation, that that, that right there is, you know, we've gotta get some really good hardware in here so that they can continue to be in business and not be down and
Adam Ringland: grow.
It's scalable. Right. You know, we're not scalable. This is only gonna be good for 25 people, you know. And then in another year I'm at 35, we gotta go back
Jason Null: to the, well, so I think it even goes all the way down to the front side too, which is the workstation. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, we see small business owners.
Running out and they're buying, you know, the Walmart couples Acer specials. Mm-hmm. They have spent $400 in computers and I'm sorry, they're just, they're not
Duane Taylor: good. And [00:05:00] it's hard to break that pattern. Correct. So that's, that's, that's the toughest part from, from our perspective, from Nate and I'S perspective, is we have to.
We have to kind of help educate and, and help bring the partners along so that they break that process of, well, I can just go to Best Buy and buy. I'm like, but that won't get you what you really need. Correct. And that won't get you what you need to stay up and running. It's just a computer and they're not all the same.
Yeah.
Jason Null: There's a difference. There's absolutely big time difference between a Dell Inspiron and a Dell attitude, right? It is a consumer grade piece of equipment versus actual business grade specs
Duane Taylor: might look the same, but they're really not. They're not. I mean, all cars have four
Jason Null: wheels, right? There's a difference between a Honda and a bmw, right?
Absolutely. Yeah. I
Austin Doans: mean, every piece of hardware is a, is a tool, right? So you, you get the tool that you need to get the job done, just like in any other industry, right? You, you know, you don't want to get a hammer. For some reason to put a screw in. Yeah. Or you know, you want to be able to scale, [00:06:00] so you might wanna have a power tool eventually.
Duane Taylor: Right. And just upgrading this infrastructure is, is it's looked upon as well. Like you said, like, why do I need to spend this money? Right. Everything seems to be working, but you know, when you talk about productivity, loss of productivity, you talk about all the folks that you're paying hourly. If we can, if we can ease into this and roadmap it and budget mm-hmm.
Budget for it, that. You don't have people calling from five locations with a 15 minute problem every day. You have maybe calling once a month, maybe one person calling once a month for, so you, you get four or five other people
Jason Null: back. Yep. I think one of the big things that we preach to our, our partners is, And it's part of the infrastructure.
It's the warranty on the infrastructure, right? Yeah. It's the warranty on the pc, the warranty on the switch, the wireless access point, the firewall. And those warranties also come with support. Right? Right. So not only are we able to. Replace the equipment. And lots of times, like I know with Dell, we can have four hour turnarounds on [00:07:00] equipment or just
Duane Taylor: we want a server one down.
Even with the infrastructure, I mean, we have those warranties in place to where that hardware is replaced within 24 hours. That might seem like a long time, but in today's date and age, ever since Covid, you know, it's still, we can't, we can't get. We can't get a replacement product for maybe ten, fifteen, twenty, a hundred fifty days, but we've got that process on the back end that's covering that warranty so that that can be replaced within 24 hours and you're up as soon as possible.
Great. Yeah. I
Jason Null: think you were mentioning we had a partner had a server go down,
Adam Ringland: right? Yeah. Within four hours that's there, you know, you lose a switch, you said you call the vendor and we have something within 24 hours shipped directly to wherever we need
Jason Null: it to go, so. Well, and Austin, from your standpoint, I mean.
You are supporting this stuff, right? Mm-hmm. And so you want good stuff, right? It makes your job easier when you're not having a monkey with something that's not up to speed, right?
Austin Doans: Yeah. I mean, of course he wants
Duane Taylor: all the good stuff.
Austin Doans: [00:08:00] Yeah. I mean, if you have the correct solutions, Right off the bat, right, you're gonna have less issues going into the future and now and into the future.
If you have something that's a little cheaper you're always gonna get what you pay for, right? So, you know, it would be more man hours on us or your business. To maybe not even guarantee that it's gonna work. Right, right. So
Jason Null: well down line is money. Downtime is
Duane Taylor: money, right? So if you've got 50 employees and 20 computers, okay, you've got 20 people working on 20 computers all day long.
The other third are working on a machinery that rely on those computers, the whole production. Yep. All of it relies upon the backbone of the network, the infrastructure, the, the, the, the status of the PCs, how they are, are they warrantied? It's all about
Jason Null: uptime. Yeah. It goes from the person answering the phone, taking an order.
Absolutely. And a processing or manufacturing with a machine that's hooked to some type of device that's producing something to even back to your billing department. Now once all this stuff is done sending out the bills. Yep. And you don't want [00:09:00] somebody sitting there waiting. We talked about that last time, like Yeah.
People just sitting waiting on machines. And
Adam Ringland: that goes back to your processor speed. That goes back to how much memory you have on
Duane Taylor: there. You know? And, and we tell a lot of our, we tell all of our partners when we, when we get to the point where, We're road mapping and we're trying to get their things together in there, keep pushing back and it, and we just break it down to what's your roi?
I mean, how much you will, you can't really quantify 15 people standing around waiting on their computers with a network to reboot every day. Yep. But you can quantify it when you say, how much are you paying them every hour? And let's do the math on that. How long are they sitting around? How long are they sitting around?
And how much are we really
Jason Null: losing? Yep. And we're not asking clients to go, our partners to go out and buy, you know, $5,000 laptops. We're looking at what the business needs. Mm-hmm. You know, and in most cases, a lot of the equipment is the same. There are certain people that do different tasks that require mm-hmm.
A little bit more machine or a little bit less.
Adam Ringland: We wanna make, yeah. If you're doing CAD drawings, you're not, you're gonna get a completely different machine than someone in billing. [00:10:00] Right?
Jason Null: Yep. And we wanna make sure it works with what they're, they're using software wise, right? Mm-hmm. I mean one of the advantages we have today, and we've talked about this and the last episode also is the cloud.
The cloud has changed the way business runs. Agreed. It is really easy for a small business to get set up, which is why we do run into people when we come in and they have the, the Walmart router and they've got some couple Walmart machines, cuz it was two guys right in a garage and now they're. You know, 10, 15 people and they've gone from a quarter of a million dollars to a million dollar business and that's awesome.
And we love to come right in and sweep next to them and then take their business to that next level.
Adam Ringland: The other good thing about, and you mentioned cloud, getting as much software as you can in the cloud, huh? That's what happens when the power goes out in your building. Yeah. Everyone go home, you can work.
Yes.
Jason Null: We saw that recently here. Yeah. We had. What was it last
Adam Ringland: fall? It was ju it was in June. Cause I was gone. Okay. Yeah. So it,
Jason Null: so last June we had that free thunderstorm roll through the city. Yep. Power was out everywhere. Our team [00:11:00] didn't miss a beat. Right. Some guys didn't have power at their houses.
Right. So they went to the library. We can't fix
Duane Taylor: that. We
Jason Null: could if we would. Right. We didn't even have power in our office, so they couldn't even come here. Right. So they were just going other places to work, but everybody was able to work remotely. Yep. And that, that's that cloud, you know, that scalability.
That leverage, we can, you
Adam Ringland: know, I feel like anytime that you and Nate are meeting with the partners, I mean, if, if, if it's an option, let's start thinking, let's, well,
Duane Taylor: at the, at the end of the day, we, we, we, we always say, you know, we want what we're doing as an IT M S P or at an IT company. We also want our partners doing.
Mm-hmm. We don't want to be doing something that they're not doing, or we don't want them doing something that we're not doing Right. We, we can operate here. If the lights go out right now, we can all go to Starbucks or we want to, I
Adam Ringland: always kind of feel like we're, we're our partners Guinea pigs too, when it comes to some of our tool sets that we use, you know, we are, we, we test it, we tried on our own.
Yeah. It's no blame how we say again. Right.
Jason Null: Get rid of this. Right. Well, and, and, and the [00:12:00] cost for, for cloud with the equipment that you have. Infrastructures used to be, 20, $30,000 to go in cuz you're buying servers, you're running email, you're running E R P systems locally. Now you can for $5,000, have a business startup have good equipment and leverage the cloud.
And now you're on this monthly cost. And you are not having to support it anymore, right?
Duane Taylor: Well, it's not, you don't have a huge capital expense either, right off the rip. Right? So you're, you're, you may go to a cloud system where you're paying, you know, x amount of dollars per month, but you didn't have to front $29,000 just for one piece of equipment.
Cause I needed to buy the whole infrastructure. Well, I remember
Jason Null: rolling out when we started moving to Office 365, right. Even when it was the BPAs days and live at edu, depending on education or business, that was our biggest selling point, was to give the cost comparison. Mm-hmm. We could put an exchange server in.
And we can run your 500 people off of it and you're gonna spend [00:13:00] $30,000, or we can move you into Office 365. And you have no infrastructure cost. We have no downside doing it. Yeah, you're up. Yeah. How much does that cost? Yeah. And these days we can move clients to the cloud so fast. The tool sets have matured so much.
Yep. To be able to just convert from local into the cloud, it's really quick. We see it. We're still seeing Office 365 conversions, even though I feel like everybody has moved there
Duane Taylor: pretty much. I mean, we've done some emergency ones too. That went pretty well. So those were kind of fun, but we. We were able to get it, we were able to get it, get through it.
So if the tool sets are a lot easier nowadays, the work is still there, but I mean it's just it's more seamless.
Austin Doans: I don't know if you guys have already talked about the whole partner relationship. Was that in the first
Jason Null: episode there? There is a little, we so the first episode really we just kind of scratched the surface on stuff.
Okay. So feel free to dive deeper into it cuz it is part of the infrastructure
Austin Doans: conversation. Yeah. I mean, that's. One of the biggest initiatives [00:14:00] we're taking right now, right, is like marketing towards how we'll be our partners with mm-hmm our customers, our clients, right? So we call them, we call them partners for a reason.
So we, we want them to get and have, get the things they need and have the support they need to succeed because when they succeed, we succeed, right? So if they get the hardware they need and it's set up correctly by us. Then they're not gonna have to call us as much. They're not gonna have issues.
Right. And then that's good for us, right? We don't have to take the calls, we don't have to have the main hours into the phones and the guys and every, and in that situation you know, the, the customer has no problems. And so everyone wins in that scenario instead of another scenario where you might.
Call a guy and say, well my thing's broken and I need to fix it, and it's $300 an hour. And the guy necessarily doesn't have that kind of relationship with you or that buy-in or that even need to make sure that the thing is set up correctly and that it's gonna work in the future. Cuz if, you know, [00:15:00] if you call again Right.
And if it's broken, he's gonna get paid again. Yep. We don't
Jason Null: have that relationship here. That's the nice thing about the relationship. Because it's ongoing. We're constantly doing maintenance. We're constantly applying patches and updates to firewalls and switches if there's a known bug. I mean, even recently we've seen in our mdr, we talked about this in our last team meeting, is our next generation antivirus found a security hole in a product mm-hmm.
And removed it for us. Yep. Really quickly. I mean, we were coming up, we were waking up, coming into the office. And it already removed it half of all
Duane Taylor: kinds of stuff. Don't even think the, the issue had been public. Public. Yeah, that's true. When we had already. So, and that's, that's what sets, I feel, sets us apart.
I mean, the relationship is, is worth its weight in gold when it comes to when you can trust and you can build that. And then, then, and it's budgetable. It's just And you're meeting with them and, and, and the proof is in the pudding. In, in, in the end. I mean, [00:16:00] when it comes down to look at all the things that we've done with all of our partners and all the new partners that we take on, we, we, we go in and we do what we know works.
Yep. And they, it's our stack, right? It's
Adam Ringland: our stack. It's hardware and
Austin Doans: software with that specific example, like, Let's go through, if you were a, a business that didn't necessarily take the same steps that we do to protect you in those instances, right. If you had that breach happen and you weren't paying for, you know, what we provide mm-hmm.
In security level or the things that, the way we set up things to be best practice, it could have snowballed really quickly. Right.
Duane Taylor: Maybe you wouldn't even know you had the
Austin Doans: problem. Right. Right. And they could have stolen personal information. Yeah. Credit card information, your bank information, and your business.
Could have went from successful to failure, gone
Jason Null: in in a day. Yeah. That's what's scary about the way a lot of the hacking has gone on these days, that security approach. It's such a layered approach. Right, right. Because you don't know if it's gonna be a flaw and secure in the program itself, or is it somebody coming through your [00:17:00] firewall?
I mean, when we make recommendations to our partners, we're not doing it because, You know, we just want you to spend all this money. We're looking at your business and trying to protect it. This is why we ask you to have next gen firewalls, right? Mm-hmm. And we want to be able to do that scanning at the firewall.
That's why we want to have dual internet connections. So if your primary goes down, because some guy hit a pole outside your secondary's up, and sometimes that secondary is cellular. You know, we're even moving into starlink as an option for people now. We see 'em being used in residential spaces and now it's being capitalized in business too.
Yep. VPNs and running two factor on our VPN connections, you know, all that stuff then comes in and the next layer is the antivirus. Right. And for us, we're running MDRs also. So we have that next generation managed defensive response system that's looking at behavior, not just running from a DAT file, trying to find a virus.
Correct. It's watching what's going on in the computer now. Right. And it's actively taking [00:18:00] action. It's, and it's, one thing it's really neat about these products is they're monitored by humans. Right. There is some AI there, some automation, but in the end there is a human checking everything. It's quick.
Yeah. And it's fast. It's amazingly fast. Yes. For us to roll out of bed, rolling into the office, sitting down, logging in, and finding out about a breach and seeing that one of our products already took care
Duane Taylor: of it, that's not even public. Yeah. We were wondering, is our software doing the right thing at first?
And then we're like, yeah, it is, it's done what it's supposed to do. Yep. And kudos for partnering. It was so
Jason Null: fast that I couldn't even make a cup of coffee through a Keurig. And Keurig coffee is fast. Yeah, yeah. It was much quicker than that. Yeah. I mean, it'll,
Austin Doans: it'll close back to the partner relationship.
At least 50% of the. The work that I do in my position is, is proactivity, right? Mm-hmm. So I like, you know, maybe half the, maybe half the tickets come in and there's, there's an actual issue. The other half is me proactively looking for things that we could improve upon or things that we can do to help our partners succeed.
Cuz you know, if they succeed, if they stay [00:19:00] in business, right? If they grow, then they can pay us more money and they have more people. Right.
Duane Taylor: I mean, it comes down. Right. So I, and I, I even go as far as telling folks when we're prospecting our partners, when I'm meeting with them, I always tell them that we, we do a lot of different things.
At separate sets aside, we upgrade Windows 10 to the latest version every month. How many, how many patches and, and things did we do last month?
Jason Null: 84,000. Oh, automations. Yeah, automations. We looked at our automation log and. We had 80, 84,000 automations last month. And that's, and that's, and our,
Duane Taylor: that's remediation.
Automated, automated
Jason Null: remediations billing. It's all kinds of stuff, but 84,000 automations. That's patching. That's monitoring, and that's taking care of, like we have automations that your hard drive still fills up. Our, our, you know, our RMM tool is going out. And seeing that and going, okay, this guy needs to dump and goes out and, you know, cleans up the downloads file, cleans up this file.
Yep. Drops the temp files, gets rid of the windows updates, right? Rolling out of [00:20:00] MDRs and rolling into standards and compliance and other items mean downes. I think that this is your wheelhouse right here. I, I always see you just. You're constantly digging in, taking things to the next level. Security.
Austin Doans: Sure.
I mean, it's, yeah, it's always gonna be things that's gonna come up anyway, if you're serious about your business and security. Right. So, you know our goal here is to have everything done before you even know it needs to be done. Really. Right. So you know, you'll get a list from your cybersecurity company or maybe a partner your, another partner or third party vendor you're working with of things they want you to do, and you give it to us and it's already done.
Yeah,
Duane Taylor: that's what I love is well, cyber security, cyber insurance, not then we, we make you do it right and we try to make you do
Jason Null: it. Cyber insurance I think is important these days. We've seen so many attacks. At one point in time, we talked that we thought it was kind of a joke 10 years ago. Mm-hmm. Today it saves businesses, especially from a financial standpoint.
Mm-hmm. But our partners, you know, when they're coming to us with their cyber insurance requirements and they've [00:21:00] got this list mm-hmm. We're just going through check, check, check, check. The only ones that maybe
Adam Ringland: not, and it's, there's a cost associated with it. There's a cost. Yeah. Yeah. You know, if there's, if there's an item on there and we're like, Yeah, it'd be good if they had it.
There's a cost associated with it. The industry they're in, not really super, super necessary.
Duane Taylor: It's not applicable to their organization. They're like, that's correct. Like, let's multifactor VPN when they're a cloud-based business. Correct. There's nothing to VPN in. Correct. So didn't have VPN to apply logic,
Jason Null: but yeah.
But it's on the list. Right,
Adam Ringland: right. But yeah, most of the times, like, like Austin said, he's, him and his, his team are, you know, getting, getting us into a better spot proactively where these partners come to us and. They're like, oh man, this is great. There isn't that much on there. And the other really nice thing about the proactivity on it from the, the security and and standardization part is because I think that, you know, we've been doing it now for a year or two where we've been, Hey, this just came out.
We want need to do this, need to do this, need to do this. There was a lot of pushback at first. They're like, why We need to change this again, but. I feel like the [00:22:00] trust is there now, you know, with, with a lot of the partners and, you know, we're asking for them to do these things, to get up to industry standards and it's pretty much nowadays like, okay, yep.
We, we believe in you guys we're, we're
Duane Taylor: listening to what you're saying. It's a big, it's, it's hard to break those habits. Yeah. It's hard to convince someone that you do actually two factor at the gas pump. Right. Okay. So I don't understand why your email isn't important in putting fuel in your car, right?
It just should be the same. So, hey, we've done a really good job of taking a lot of people to the next level from the security standpoint, and we've also helped a lot of partners save money. And, and Austin worked with me on one where we had a small partner that they were being told, Hey, this, you don't have this turned on.
You don't have this turned on. This is your premium. And. He and I looked at it and we were like, how do they know this? Right? They wouldn't know this. They don't have our credentials. I can guarantee they don't have ours cause we are two factored adults, [00:23:00] that minimum. So, but at the end of the day, we were able to save them like a third of their premium by just a couple emails of pushback.
Yeah. And that's all about the standards and compliance that we can do across the board for
Jason Null: everyone. Yeah. I love the scans sometimes that we get provided from like the insurance companies and it's like, you're not meeting these compliance and it's like, That's not even their IP address. They didn't even scan their firewall.
You know, you're looking at it and it's talking about some kind of picks firewall or something weird and you know, that's not what we're running. Right? And you're like, Hey, that's not even our IP address. Cause say we don't have these ports open. And we go back and we're like, you guys have a typo in your, you know, scan.
And they come back and yeah, rates go down and spending most,
Austin Doans: most of the time it's. Literally simply a guess from those companies. Right. And it is a good guess. Yeah. Honestly, I mean, most of these companies they don't
Jason Null: have, correct.
Duane Taylor: Well, it's like you get the flyer in the mail that says you need a new roof, and you're like, that's not my house.
Right. Most people probably, but then you're like, do I need a new roof? Do
Jason Null: I need a new. Yeah, it's, it makes, it makes a difference. So, [00:24:00] so with small business, with cloud, the elasticity of it, servers on site, do we think the current small business model that we're deploying, or we maybe even seen sometimes we're coming across, do you think they're scalable?
Do you think that small businesses can scale? In most cases? I
Duane Taylor: believe that 90. 9% of our partners are absolutely scalable. Yeah. And if they're not, if they're not, then we make sure that we roadmap them to where they can be. Right. Because the
Adam Ringland: only, the only thing I can think really that's maybe sometimes wouldn't be just scalable, just like this, is if they're not, a lot of the stuff isn't in the cloud and they have a physical server, you know, and it's not like just something that, oh, hey, we can poof, we can give you all this extra space.
When, you know, when we quoted this and build it for you and implemented it, you didn't tell us about this growth, this four companies that you bought and now you have all this data on here. So that's really one of the only pro and that, but again, that's why we're going back
Duane Taylor: and trying to get as [00:25:00] much data.
Well, that's why we have, that's why we have our stack. That's why we have, we, that's why we use what we know, what works to where. You know, you can go out and buy businesses and do your blue in the face. All we gotta do is have a couple pieces of equipment to it, and they're all on board. We're all in the same system.
We're all under the same roof, even though we're in different
Jason Null: states. That's amazing that you say that from a scalability standpoint. I mean, how many of our partners. Have we have new location,
Adam Ringland: Purchas, new, new location,
Duane Taylor: Ely, new, new location, and we can
Jason Null: just roll with it instantly because of the products that we're using.
Your phone
Duane Taylor: system, boom, here you go. Wanna open up a new location in three weeks? We got you covered. You're good. You're scalable. Yeah. And I don't know that there's been any, anybody that's not scalable, it's because we're still road mapping them. That would be the only thing. Or, or maybe there's no growth and they're not gonna scale, but it still doesn't matter.
We're still road mapping. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it
Jason Null: might be a new partner. Right. And we're still in the middle of changing over some of the gear to make it right. Better for what we'd like to see, and making it secure and then taking 'em to that next level so they can grow. And we [00:26:00] understand taking over partners all the time that we're not gonna walk in the door and spend $10,000.
Well, we're gonna walk in the door and, and, and make that roadmap. I mean, that's right. That's where you guys come in, you
Duane Taylor: know, and, and just because you can buy it for a hundred dollars, And you can buy it for a thousand dollars doesn't mean it's a hundred dollars. Yeah. They might do kind of the same thing, but they don't, like you said earlier, there's a difference between a fiat and a BMW or whatever, right?
Yeah. So it's, it's, that's, that's where we can be better at supporting our pro our partners is when we have that visibility into the networks to fix the problems much quicker than trying to log into. 14 different devices that you collectively shouldn't really have in your network
Jason Null: anyways. Well, and that scalability, I think also helps us with being able to futureproof our
Adam Ringland: partners.
Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. And just think about where we were. You know, not that many years ago we were, maybe we weren't as scalable with some of the stuff that we were using, you know, and then we have these larger companies that are going out and they're buying other entities and they can't give us 45 [00:27:00] days notice because it's all hush hush and
Duane Taylor: Right.
Due diligence, all that good stuff. So it's like, hey,
DIY-IT - Ep02 - IT Infrastructure: we
Adam Ringland: got a new, you know, up in Northern on Northern Ohio, we got a new. Place we need lit up. And it's like, okay, you give us 10, yeah, 10 working days. We'll try to get some equipment. If not, we'll throw some loaners in there. We can build you a phone system.
Have it all connected back to your corporate.
Jason Null: There you go. Yeah. I mean
Duane Taylor: our, yeah, we're not 30 days, we're not 90 days, we're not six months out to get this all done. Correct. We're, we're, we're, we'd appreciate more
Adam Ringland: than 10 days.
Duane Taylor: We can do it.
Jason Null: Right. And and Covid has really made the supply chain horrible for that.
Yeah, absolutely. We have. Invested a lot of time and money and effort in the last, you know, 18 months of having spare equipment because of growth for our partners that, you know, it might take us, you know, six months to get something now, and things have gotten better and faster. You know, we've had orders on, you know, out there for a year and they show up finally and things are starting to come faster.
[00:28:00] But we can roll to a client, to a product right now and get them going, and then when the product actually that they ordered comes in, we can then redeploy it again. So they have that and the downtime is minimal.
Duane Taylor: Like lead times wasn't even a thing. Yeah. In 2020. Correct. It was not a thing. We ordered something.
It was here in two days. Yeah. Maybe the next day. Now if you order something, it might get here in 14. Right. So we'd push a lot on the higher need partners to say, if we're gonna have this turnover or we're gonna have this, these growth spurts, let's road map that as well. And let's get some equipment on hand.
Yeah. So that we can, we can, we can make sure that the new employee hits the ground running with a full toolbox. Yep.
Jason Null: Well, I love, that's one thing I love about the cloud. It's so, it's so future-proofing. It's so scalable. It really makes our partners be able to grow on the fly. Super fast, super quickly, and, and products [00:29:00] like whether it's G Suites or Microsoft's Office 365, they're constantly growing themselves and evolving.
Mm-hmm. And we're constantly getting new updates. We're getting improvements. Office 365, prime example of how far they have come in their anti phishing. Right. And their spam and their spoofing and all of those products, they have grown leaps and bounds. Yeah.
Austin Doans: Every product we have is. Is always constantly growing and improving.
We don't, we don't wanna buy anything that's a single use like product anymore.
Duane Taylor: Right. That's just gonna say, we used to have like a handful of, you know, I won't name names, but we used to have all these different spam filters. We used to have all these different products that we used, and Microsoft's done a really good job of trying to rein that in and under their umbrella.
Yeah.
Jason Null: And they continue to improve constantly. Absolutely. And if you, if you actually follow the advice that, you know, DO'S team provides our clients can be so successful in the cloud. It's, it's night and day and then it was 10 years ago. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Austin Doans: Cloud is the most scalable, most flexible, most [00:30:00] powerful option you can have.
Right. It just depends on, you know, where your business is. You want to pay for something premium cash. It is premium, or you know, you could get something a little less. Premium and, you know, you get something a little less premium. But it's really just depends on your needs.
Duane Taylor: And we look at it that way when we're, when we're, when we're looking at roadmaps and things like that, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look at the something and say, why would I pay sure.
$300,000 for a solution that I can get for a hundred thousand? Sure. We're always the thing that makes the most sense for you.
Jason Null: Right, right, right. Yeah. Well that's, cloud is awesome too from downtime. You know, last episode kind of talked about having a, a laptop stolen and how quickly I was able to have it replaced and be up and running because our products are all cloud based.
Right? Right. I didn't have to think about anything. It's just like, boom, I'm ready to go. Yep.
Duane Taylor: And far as future proofing goes, I mean, that's just. That's our stack. Yeah. I mean it's, it's, it is, it's years. It's, it works for years.
Jason Null: Yep. There's still hardware [00:31:00] on site. There will be for a long time. Yeah. There's still, you know, we will always need our firewalls to secure your, your physical space, you know, we'll need switches and, and wireless access points and they will age and new channels and Right.
New, you know. A, B, C, whatever it's going to be, broadcasting wise is gonna come out. They're gonna be better quality, they're gonna get faster, and so that stuff's always gonna rotate and we're always gonna be able to scale and futureproof you and plan, I mean, mm-hmm. The VCI office helps our, our partners see that, see what they're investing into their hardware, why they're investing this into their hardware.
Or their software, then their infrastructures overall and how to take their businesses to the next level. Every solution and
DIY-IT - Ep02 - IT Infrastructure: product
Austin Doans: you get has an end of life, right? You may not recognize it or know that. Mm-hmm. But it has an end of life from either the vendor's point of view or a update and security point of view.
And I don't wanna speak for anyone, any other IT department or company, but you know, if, if you had a [00:32:00] example of an IT department or company that's, Maybe wanted to save you some money in upfront and buy used computers or refurbished computers for everyone and they're already, you know, 2, 2, 3 years into their life, maybe you're gonna save that money upfront.
Right? But then the end of life is gonna be just that much shorter, right? So you know, instead of it going, you know, being end of life in 2027, you're looking at 2025, and then you're just. You're ending up with a product that is, you know, either not supported or gonna be slower and you're gonna lose productivity on your employees.
So everything we get is gonna be, you know, we're never ever gonna recommend, recommend something that's end of life or close to end of
Adam Ringland: life. And there might be a lot of folks too that see from a network infrastructure, you know, some companies might be like, well it's, it's end of life, but it's still working.
Right? It's still fine. That just means until there's a difference, until it dies, no support on it and good luck getting it replaced.
DIY-IT - Ep02 - IT Infrastructure: So,
Jason Null: so just kind of. Taking this and putting it all together and thinking about my infrastructure as a business owner and all that [00:33:00] stuff. The one thing that I think this, that we haven't talked about at all about infrastructures is backups.
You know, how do you, how do you back up infrastructures in this day and age? I mean, are we, oh, we don't, can we back up cloud? What is backup? We don't, we're firmly
Duane Taylor: against backups. I thought we used USB external drives and we just sand thumb drives sloppy.
Jason Null: I think I net Are we going back to sneaker nets?
I mean, I have,
Duane Taylor: I have a, an interesting story that I share with a lot of our partners when we talk about the backups and, and we all know about the pipeline. We all know about they paid the ransom. Yep. And I was with a partner and we were talking about backups. They wanted to know what their, you know, restore and how long they were gonna be down in the event.
You know, something happened. We delved into the scenario that they were wanting to talk about and they actually said well, why did the pipeline have to pay the ransom? Cuz I said, we've never paid ransom. We've never paid ransom. If [00:34:00] you are a partner of ours, we've never paid ransom. We've had to pay ransom for other people that didn't pay us for support, but that was a little too late.
Right? Right. So but they said, so you mean to tell me that you have a better backup solution in place than a multi-billion dollar company? And I said, absolutely. I guess so. I mean, well, I mean, it's obvi. I, I wanted to call like, and, and get on the radio and go, why didn't they just call us and have us implement our backup solution?
Cuz they would've not. They would've saved $7 million. It would only cost them four. Right. I'm just kidding. It wouldn't have cost 'em very much, but my thing is the way that it's the way that we have it designed, the way that we have it segmented. The way, the old ways of backups, the old corporate ways of backups, those, those are no longer valid.
They're, they're, they're, they're, they're huge holes in your security system. So I think that that's one thing that I, that I really, really focus on is how, well ours is what I would call almost undetectable on a network. You can't find it. [00:35:00] Yeah. And if, but by the time you do find it, or if you get tired of looking for it, you're looking for the low hanging fruit.
You're not. You're like, I'm not gonna keep looking for this. Maybe they don't have a backup right now. What's, you know, but when you can't find ours, can't see even better.
Adam Ringland: What's cool about ours too is it's not even just a backup solution. It's a disaster recovery solution. So, you know, we're going through and making sure that, that the devices we have in that perform your daily backups both physically and then off into the cloud, are able to then run.
As standalone units in the event they need to, now they can become a server. Correct. So they run your entire environment. Maybe not right? Cause they get your crucial pieces of your environment back up. Absolutely. You know, and then your restore pains, you know, times and, oh my gosh, we're down for days.
Those are gonna lessen two because of. You know, a lot of the things that, that we're doing on from the CIS admin side on, on, getting those rubbed
Duane Taylor: up, there's a lot of data, a lot of people, there's no housekeeping of data there. People don't want to throw anything away. They're just buy storage. Storage [00:36:00] is cheap.
You're never gonna get rid of it. I'm gonna keep it till everyone, you know, never wants to know about it. But at the end of the day, we can. That takes a long time to restore. So like what Adam was referring to is our process is we can. Take that server that's downed and run that in another instance, get you get the partners up and running, and then we can restore data back to.
To the servers and, and, and the equipment that's needed after hours to where there's the whole company's not shut down and we can, we can get the services restored. I wanna
Jason Null: kind of touch back to a couple things. What you mentioned is, you know, how are backups, you know, we're, we're trying to hide them, right?
Mm-hmm. The devices and what, what happened in history, right? So in the past, as it administrators, we got lazy, right? 10 years ago, everything was integrated. Everything was used. An active director with single sign on, and then hackers started breaking into our networks compromising accounts. And we learned a [00:37:00] long time ago, maybe it's because we're in small business and we can shift quickly and we're not an enterprise and we have to go through committees and different things like that.
I mean, we, we need the board. We actually sat down quickly and pivoted. We were like, okay, what do we need to do? What things can we do to stop this? We started decoupling our backup units. They're no longer integrated. Then we started hiding them. Then we started two factoring them. We just kept, we just kept doing everything.
So it's, it's good. So with, when we were talking about decoupling and, and in the end, I mean, we took every precaution we could to try to make sure our backup units were off networks. Mm-hmm. In a, in a, in a way that they weren't easily found. So that a hacker, and then I know your team goes in and, and checks backups weekly and they're actually restoring files and making sure that, cuz we've seen backups be taken over and somebody sit there for six months and own the backup.
Yep. And that's where it's devastating is that's the [00:38:00] company had a backup right. But six months, somebody's been in there for six, six months. Not now. Yeah.
Duane Taylor: Well, they, yeah. They, they, they, they just change the encryption key. Correct. And then just let the backups run to where your retention 60 days is over.
Now you can't restore. Now you're hosed. Now you gotta pay the ransom with us. They never find it Divide. Yeah. So weekly back backups
Jason Null: and then they can find it. It's just we make it
Duane Taylor: harder. Right. They got a two factor.
Adam Ringland: Yeah. One of the really nice things that. The dunes even came up with was, Hey guys, like maybe we should take all of our documentation on backups out of our centralized documentation.
Storage. Yeah. Because if that were to somehow get breached, breached, they have everything, right? They have
Duane Taylor: all the creds keys to the castle. Yeah. Yeah. Like
Adam Ringland: to every server, every backup. So it's not even stored with our normal documentation.
Jason Null: Yeah. I mean, for us, we have, just to get to our data, it's like you have to jump to a couple places to get passwords.
Yeah. And then, you know, having two factor to that to make sure that all of our stuff Yep. Because if the MSP gets breached Yeah. Then your backups, who doesn't matter what you have.
Austin Doans: Yeah. I always say [00:39:00] that the backups is the most important
Duane Taylor: service. Yep. You're only as good as your last backup period.
Jason Null: Having local backup, you know, having good retention, sending it offsite to the cloud.
That all makes a difference. Or even today, because we have cloud products, right? We're kind of doing reverse, a reverse backup insert. Microsoft 360
Austin Doans: fives. We're bringing it down. Yeah. It's all multilayered in a way that, you know, if you're building literally burns down, it ceases to exist, then you still have backups you know, if it's compromised and ransomware, you still have a backup somewhere.
You know, it's layered. Mm-hmm. So, you know, there's always gonna be something. There's physical backups on site, there's cloud backups, there's multiple versions of each different one. You know, there's contingency policies on contingency
Jason Null: policies, right? Yep. Yep. So we're moving away from backups, which I, we could probably talk forever about backups and we're
Adam Ringland: gonna dig in deeper next week on, right, on the cloud in
Duane Taylor: general.
Jason Null: So that's, that's true. So let's talk about maintenance, monitoring, and security. Best practices for it. [00:40:00] Infrastructure, you know, what are we doing? What are we doing for our partners as part of that, for these infrastructures? Four PCs.
Austin Doans: I had a, somebody submit a ticket recently with one of our partners, and I don't know exactly what they were asking for either for cybersecurity or one of a third party vendor or something, but they put in a ticket.
It was like, how do you. Secure, secure our computers. Basically, it was like the most generalized question in the world, and I had to call her. I was like, I don't know how to answer that. Cause there's just there I could give you 30 days
Duane Taylor: go on for
Austin Doans: day. Yeah, right. I, I don't even know where to start. So, I mean, it, it's, it's, I still don't know how to start.
Right.
Jason Null: Well, if you want your PC secured, I'm just gonna take away your user id. Yeah. Take away your end user.
Duane Taylor: Right. It's, no one can
Jason Null: use it. It's secure. Right. We're gonna unplug it from the network and then we're gonna get rid of the user and then it's good. It's just gonna be there.
Austin Doans: Yep. It's all gonna come down to layers again, so, oh yeah.
It probably all starts with when we onboard you, it, you know, we install our, our agent, which is just a very small program, right? [00:41:00] We install on everyone's computer and it gets everything started. So antivirus, our you know, our inventory system, everything that it needs to do it starts off automations.
So the first thing it does is it starts clearing out your temporary files. Is gets your computer running better than it was. Creates
Duane Taylor: a healthy environment. Yeah. Yeah.
Austin Doans: It gets your computer up to date. I mean, it does a lot of things. Just, it's the first thing you do. And a lot of the times we automate it and push that out.
So maybe it's on your computer in five seconds and then it just gets right to work.
Jason Null: Yep. And that think it's got the av, it's got the mdr, it starts looking at patching. Yep. Oh look, this computer's way outta date. Let's start applying these and schedule reboots and taking the security each time.
Tightening it up, tightening it up. And then, you know, you're meeting with these partners and then maybe in six months they put in a next generation firewall. Right. They replace that link CI router that, yeah. You know, somebody put like one of these like, you know, open onion routers on it or whatever, and it's never been patched since then and it's [00:42:00] got security holes or, and you know, putting something on it that constantly is being patched, constantly being monitored.
Well,
Duane Taylor: patching is, it is exactly that. I mean, think about all the vulnerabilities that we hear about and all the, the attacks and all these breaches. It's because something wasn't patched.
Austin Doans: Yeah. Everything, everything in it comes down to change. Like Right. You know, if you're a law firm, like the laws change, but in it, you know, they lost change however often, and an IT things changed on a daily basis, an hourly basis.
Yeah. So that's what these updates are. You're getting on your computer. Right, so like Microsoft comes out with weekly updates, daily critical updates because there's something that someone found that they could take advantage of, and if you don't have that, then they're gonna take advantage
Jason Null: of you. I mean, Kronos is a prime example of not patching.
That was
Duane Taylor: an absolute look at that was devastating,
Jason Null: right? Yeah. I mean, we had partners calling us, being like, Can you like help us do payroll? Right? They just didn't know how to do payroll or Right. You know, how to track their [00:43:00] hours for their employees. And that's, that's
Duane Taylor: another thing that we, that we also take into consideration back to the cloud.
We'll get right back. I'll squirrel for a second, but. You know, I always say it's, we, we could protect you to some extent. However, if you wanna put all your eggs into this cloud basket, we need to under, we need to understand what they're doing on their end to protect your data. Mm-hmm. Versus just selling you space and, and service.
Like, if, if we don't have a good feeling that they're, they're, they're doing the right things that we would, we we want them to do, then we would not recommend you use them. We would go to a better product
Adam Ringland: if they're not reputable. Right. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, back to the always having this hardware, that patches itself, and that's, that's from a network standpoint, that's your firewall.
That's your aps, that's your switching. That's everything. And, and there's a point that you made earlier. It's, yeah, there's something that costs a thousand something. That costs a hundred. Now the a hundred, a hundred dollars, something could still make you function, but it's not doing all the
Duane Taylor: other stuff.
It might look the same or similar, but, but it's not
Adam Ringland: doing all the other functions Correct. You [00:44:00] really need in your environment. And then, you know, Austin, like you were mentioning all the pieces that we're doing from a hardware standpoint, from the pc, then you go from, all right, we've secured the hardware as best we possibly can from an automation standpoint in the os.
Now what do we do to help secure the end user? Mm. That gets into another portion of our, our our security web, web training campaigns. Because honestly, guys, we all know, and we've probably said it numerous times at nauseum, the end user is worth
Duane Taylor: the, that's your biggest vulnerability in any organization is your, is your end user.
That's the end
Adam Ringland: user. So trying to help them at least you know, with, with quarterly reminders, quarterly training. I know, you know, you guys had also sent out in the past around the holidays. Hey, just a reminder, be looking extra diligent for ups, Amazon, Walmart,
Duane Taylor: and the FBI's not gonna email you. You know?
Right.
Adam Ringland: So it's, that's, I mean, that, that's goes back to like, where could you even begin to quantify how we're trying to secure your, a computer.
Jason Null: Well end user security right there, [00:45:00] right? Yeah. This is why that you meet with your partners, right? Because what's the first thing that you start doing with the user lists?
How many times have you had users? Users,
Duane Taylor: you've gone in? I've gone in and saying, why do we, they're like, well, we, none of these people work here anymore. You shouldn't told us, right? Nobody told us.
Jason Null: I mean, So, I mean,
Duane Taylor: that's, that's part of making that relationship better and making that relationship better and making them partners to where they can just call it off to us.
But there's a lot of, there's a lot of loopholes when, when, when folks, when they do, they don't partner with us. They and we do all this cleanup and all these audits for a reason. We require the two factor. We require all these things. And to review that every quarter, every month, however you want.
You can't do it enough, right? Correct. You really can't.
Jason Null: I mean, we have an automation tool that runs basically audits against every one of our partners networks every month. Mm-hmm. Yep. And you guys go through and you look for key areas to secure, or if you missed. Something [00:46:00] or something, you know, popped up and you didn't know about it.
And you guys are making changes, I'm
Duane Taylor: sure. Constantly. You don't want to have to fix things. No. No. Okay. And I get that cause I did support forever. No one ever wants to have to fix something. Cause no one ever calls you and says, how are you today? They call you and they say, it's broken and it's broken bad.
I need you to fix it. Yeah. Well on the, the flip side of that is us going to them and saying, before this breaks. Yep. Can we fix it? Because it will. Yeah, because it's gonna break. Yeah. And if, if we can stop it from breaking and just let him and his team do his thing. Do their thing, then we're gonna be way better off.
Sure. Austin
Jason Null: wants to play on his Xbox. I mean, absolutely. He's honest. I mean, he doesn't want to be your network fixing things. Right, right. Yeah.
Austin Doans: When I
Adam Ringland: see already done Donna's, when I see your, when I see my system administrators out there, Just, just chilling. I know we're in a good spot. Absolutely.
Jason Null: Speed it up like this.
And he's playing on the giant screen X Xbox. Yeah. We know everything's secure. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good, I mean it's actually, it's, it's a good sign to see when, when our [00:47:00] engineers can take that time because they've spent so many nights and days. Yep. Doing all of this, coming up with these. Following standards, implementing these standards, securing and hardening these networks to the
Duane Taylor: best that they can.
Increasing the score of the infrastructure and the integrity of the data is what this man and our teams do all the time. And I say that all the time. That's why none of the end users like them. That's why no
Adam Ringland: one likes, he makes, he
Duane Taylor: makes, he makes their lives harder. He doesn't like people. I mean, in the short term, but easy in the long run.
Right. That's, and you don't realize
Jason Null: that now, but That's right. But, but the partners don't know is we don't like 'em either, so it's all good. Right.
Duane Taylor: But that's, that's, that's the one of the things that Jason referred to as we're running this tool set every month. And we're looking to improve that score constantly.
I mean, even if it's in 94, yay. Some people think that's great. It's just an A minus kind of, right. It's not like an a plus. So we wanna be 98, 9900. Agreed.
Jason Null: Yeah. [00:48:00] So, We've talked about antivirus, we've talked about strong passwords. Encryption is another layer there. I don't think, we don't see too much encryption on workstations for most of our vendors.
We do see encryption in backups and other products we're using. Obviously we're doing regular daily data backups. We're, you know, setting permissions on stuff. We're doing pen testing. We're doing all of these steps just to make sure that our partners are secure. Is there anything guys that you can think of that from a security maintenance monitoring that we may not have talked about that hot plate or hot item that you guys are constantly seeing?
Adam Ringland: I mean, we could jump back real quick. I don't know that we really delved into like the password requirements thing in, in, in full detail. Yeah. You know, there is a government agency that is constantly updating the standards, and that's what these guys are kind of going out and looking at and determining, Hey, what's best when we, when we throw that term around, you know, standard [00:49:00] policies, you know, it's not just us making things up willy-nilly.
Right. So now what we've been doing in the last, you know, few, few amounts a months, is changing the password guidelines. So that complexity has gone from, you know, a shorter one with weird characters, uppercase, lowercase. Numbers to let's go longer and let's use a passphrase instead. You don't need the complexity, you don't need the special characters.
You don't need to ever reset any longer. Right. You can literally just create a passphrase. That's perfect. Which used
Duane Taylor: to be like in the ba back in the day, that was like not what you wanted to do, right? Yep. You wanted like upper upperly, lowercase characters, symbols, things that you could never, and now it's like a couple spaces and just like passphrases.
Literally a sentence. Just
Adam Ringland: a sentence. Yeah. That's a sentence, but that's personal to you. Yep. Makes it
Austin Doans: easy to remember I don't have to expire every 90 days anymore and have a post-it note with every password that you think you've come up with in the past
Duane Taylor: five years. You're just adding a one to the end of it.
Bob two, Bob three, you know, you're whatever.
Adam Ringland: That's why it's changed cuz he, they know most people keep their [00:50:00] passwords on a post-it note under their keyboard. No. And they're like, oh shoot. What was it last 90 days?
Duane Taylor: Yeah, yeah. Document seven, we're gonna make it document eight. This time. It makes
Austin Doans: it easier for everyone to guess.
As it comes back to social, social engineering, which is the number one way things people work, get hacked, which is literally just people to people. Somebody walks up to your desk, opens up, you know, op lifts up your keyboard, there's your password. They can be you. They can steal the company's money and it's
Jason Null: you.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and we, and we talked, we talked a little bit about this and we kind of breezed over it, but this goes back to us monitoring dark web for our partners, right? Mm-hmm. Because that's what shows up on the dark web, our credentials mm-hmm. And passwords. And we will see credentials released for an end user, and we'll try 'em and see, realize that they work.
Then we get ahold of the end user. That's,
Adam Ringland: that's when it's. Like,
Duane Taylor: oh boy, that's what I did. But also we treat those, that's happening constantly. We treat those notifications like almost, I, I always refer when I'm, when I'm meeting with partners, I tell them that the importance of the dark web monitoring [00:51:00] is, is almost as important as.
Is a termination Yeah. If it's not looked upon quicker Yeah. Within our organization. Like it comes in that fast and we treat 'em that way. The, and it's been a, it's been a little bit of a process to, to show this data. Like, okay, these, this, these folks did the training. And now we fished them. Hmm. And now these people need to do the training again.
And, and it just, just takes time to get that going. But, but the entire time,
Adam Ringland: while that piece is happening, everything's still getting
Duane Taylor: monitored on the background. Right, right, right. We still got everything running to protect their clickability.
Jason Null: Yeah. So I think we could probably go on and on and on. I know I can talk it all day long, especially about security.
But I want to thank you guys for coming. Sure. Thanks for having us. And next week, you know, we're gonna dive into deeper, dive into cybersecurity, so I hope you guys come back. Dunes, you're always welcome to come back. And Dwayne and Adam, I think I've had my fill. You have your fellow. Hello? We'll, we'll set different.
Yeah. I'm never coming back. Change up [00:52:00] stuff so you know, is there gonna be food next time? There're gonna be food next time. So you guys can follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn. You can subscribe to this podcast. Mis we have a new rebranding website coming out and all this is going to continue to launch through it.
So I thank you guys. And that's a wrap. No, there's still nothing
Duane Taylor: on those cards. No, there is. They're empty.
Jason Null: So,
